#8 - Fierté & Orgueil

While talking with a friend the other day, we realized that I had been (unwittingly) following a theme during the first few weeks of my blog: gourmand, to have sex, ennui....  See the pattern?  Why, if it isn't the Seven Deadly Sins!  Since I've already covered gluttony, lust, and sloth, I figured I might as well continue in that vein with two French words that I sorely miss in English: fierté and orgueil.  These words mark a distinction that, unfortunately, we English-speakers can only make through context.  Our word for it is "pride."


Perhaps you've already guessed what that distinction is, but if not, let's see if you can suss it out in these examples:

Pride and Prejudice - Orgueil et Préjugés

"to be proud of (someone)" - Être fier de (quelqu'un)

"make (somebody) proud" - rendre fier / remplir de fierté
"to flatter someone's pride" - Flatter l'orgueil de quelqu'un 
"national pride" - fierté nationale; (or occasionally) orgueil national

"Don't let pride stop you from asking for help." - Ne laissez pas l'orgueil vous empêcher de demander de l'aide.

In short--orgueil is the negative version, while fierté is usually positive.  It's good to be proud of something you've accomplished, or to be proud of someone else, but have too much pride for the wrong reasons, and it becomes orgueil, the first of the seven deadly sins.  In everyday usage, that is essentially the difference.

However, what's odd is that, even though they have these two separate words, the historical and literary uses of fierté and orgueil are much less clear-cut. 

Mediadico gives these definitions:

> fier, f.fière (adjectif)

Orgueilleux, qui a le sens de l' honneur. - "Orgueilleux, having a sense of honor"
Grand, élevé, noble: une âme fière.  - "Great, high, noble: a proud soul"
Content de, qui tire vanité de.  - "Happy with, getting vanity from"

> orgueil (nom masculin)

Opinion trop avantageuse de soi-même.  - Too high opinion of one-self
Dans un sens non péjoratif: sentiment noble qui inspire une juste confiance en son mérite.  - In the non-pejorative sense: noble feeling that inspires a justified confidence in one's merit.

Both of them have positive and negative uses, just like the English "pride."  The word orgueilleux (the adjective form of orgueil) was even part of the definition of fier!  Also, LaRousse gives examples like Il est l'orgueil de la famille ("He is the pride of his family"), which is a good thing, and fier comme un coq ("proud as a rooster), which is used an insult.  So what's the deal?

It's true that throughout history the difference between these two words has been changeable and frequently dependent on context.  The French have had a complex, often ironic relationship with the idea of pride.  Gustave Flaubert once wrote:

"Le comble de l'orgueil, c'est de se mépriser soi-même." 
(The height of pride is to despise onself.)

However, in current usage, the difference between the two words is clear.  

Ask French people what the difference is between fierté et orgueil and they'll tell you that orgueil is definitely more negative, while fierté refers more to dignity and pride felt from making a great effort or keeping high standards.  Anyone talking about the seven deadly sins, however, will always use the word orgueil.  

It's a distinction that I quite like, and I'm glad the French have finally sorted that out.  After all, if you've got two words for a thing, you might as well make both of them useful.